SPEAKER_01 0:34

Hello everyone. Have you ever wanted to self-publish a book? To write a book? Maybe you've dreamed about it. You have a message inside of you that you want to get out to the world. Well, you want to stay tuned to this episode today because I am going to have a special guest, David Martin, who is a writer, publisher, and entrepreneur who has published almost 600 books and built a seven-figure business and book royalties. So stay tuned because you're going to learn how to publish your first book quickly and with audience clarity here on the Resilient Faith Online podcast. Welcome. I'm Marissa Shatterick, host of the Resilient Faith Online Show. I'm a digital strategist and certified copywriter, but more importantly, a woman of faith. In this podcast, you'll find a biblical perspective to the external and internal challenges we face as online content creators. Join me for some inspiration and practice and practical tips as we let our faith shape our work to create positive change online. To connect with our private Facebook group of faith-based online entrepreneurs, go to MarissaShabert.com forward slash faith. Hello, David. How are you today?

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Yeah, very, very well. Thanks. It's great to be here with you. It really is.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Thank you so much for joining me. So you have just an incredible story, an incredible background. Can you tell us a little bit about your journey, just some of the results, some of the things, just walk us through your story so we can get kind of that overarching picture.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Okay. Well, my wife and I are actually ordained pastors. We pastored and planted churches for almost 20 years. So we we traveled around and uh kind of earned our stripes out on the various mission fields. Um, largely in the UK, is where we were pastoring. Um, and then probably must be about seven years ago now, I moved into more of the business space, entrepreneurial space. I'd already been writing a lot. I I've produced a Bible school. Um, so you know, people can access that for free at jesuschrist.co.uk if it's of any interest. Um but um so I'd already I'd kind of uh cut my teeth developing uh writing and developing an online Bible school in the online space. Um and then when we kind of stepped out of uh actually kind of hands-on, on-the-ground pastoring churches, moved into um publishing as really a business. Um and uh since then I've published probably 600 books. Uh, I work with multiple authors, I author books myself. Um very much, I'm very passionate about the whole self-publishing revolution that's taken place, to be honest, because it's just removed the gatekeepers and given us such incredible liberty to share our message with the world. Um, and you know, uh on top of that, you mean just the freedom and the liberty to influence and impact people's lives. Um I've also done kind of seven, seven figures in royalties just from the short books that I published to Amazon. So it's uh it's not only proved a way for me to continue my pulpiteering lifestyle and sharing my message with the world, um, but has also uh turned into quite a lucrative business, too.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

So oh my gosh, you have said so much right there. That just blows me away. Let's, I mean, there's a lot there that you said. I've got so many questions. So let's break it down a little bit. You said 600 publications?

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Uh probably around that. I would, I would that that's a very ballpark figure. Uh as I say, I I work um I work in various different ways. I write books myself. I did not write 600 books. Um I actually I I actually hire other writers to write a lot of my books for me. Um, I run a fiction public Christian fiction publishing business um and really serve quite a neat quite a niche market in the fiction um side of things. I'm not really a fiction writer or even a fiction reader, other than my research. Um, but I work with some very talented writers to bring my ideas to life.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Oh my gosh, but still that's quite an accomplishment. Now, what kind of uh time frame are we looking at that you publish as just kind of tell us how you got started and within that period that you've published these many books?

SPEAKER_00 5:28

So you've I mean I probably started the the fiction side of the business about five or six years ago, five years ago, maybe. Um, and and initially, obviously, I was just finding my feed. I'd never published fiction before. I I like I say I was I was a Bible school teacher, writer, preacher, all of that. Um had produced a number of books um myself. I mean, I like I was I was actually self-publishing long before um long before Amazon was even like long before Kindle was even a twinkle in Amazon's eye. I was I was self-publishing books on a photocopier, like back in the day. And and that I had to make them short because if you you couldn't fold them over, I would pin them out, fold them over, and then staple or stitch them down the side. Oh, that's so I got into short, short book publishing like way back in the day that I would take to various meetings I was preaching at, but um, and then kind of started moving into that space uh on on a non-fiction basis. I did uh quite a number of kids' books myself. I experimented even with things like cookbooks and things like that. Not not that I could call myself a cook. Um, and then kind of through that and various other avenues kind of started branching into the fiction side. And what once I got into the fiction side, that really was where I started looking at the incredible uh like just just the opportunities we have now, Marissa, are just like beyond beyond someone's imagination, even 10 years ago. Oh, you're talking about what what is what is available to us now? I mean, there's a there's a some great scriptures in in the book of Daniel. Um, towards the end of the book of Daniel, you know, it's like um God is basically saying, Look, I've kept some things secret from you, because I mean, as we know, Daniel got kind of front row seats, but you know, God said, Look, there are some things that like I can only just kind of um dangle a bit of a a bit of bait, but you know, there's coming a day where people will run to and fro all over the earth and knowledge will increase beyond anything you can even begin to imagine now. And we we really are in those days, yes. I mean, literally, I can have an idea on Monday, and by Friday, that that idea can be available for people to consume uh on the at the uttermost parts of the earth, right? The internet is when when was anything like that ever available? It's just so so amazing.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Does it stir something in you, knowing that we have the internet to be able to put out content, whether it's a book or a blog or a podcast, whatever it might be, that can impact others all throughout the world? Does that do something inside of you that at does that inspire you or does that give you a sense of responsibility to use and leverage as much as possible?

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Yeah, I mean, well, I mean, if I could if you could dance on a podcast, I would do a little happy dance right now. Because quite quite honestly, I I am in awe of what the Holy Ghost has opened up for uh both both in my own life, but it's more just the possibility, I mean, and and the the uh you know I often talk about how people how we are called really as Christian creatives, um, because that's really that's that's who I am, that's who I just kind of connect with and work with uh most naturally or supernaturally, if you like. Um the the idea that we can move someone from something that they're passionate about, they carry something in their heart, but they just don't know how to crystallize it into something others can consume.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

The way that the the internet has opened things up, the way that the development of software has has opened things up. I mean, I've got a I've got a like I've got a video editing suite in my office that's far more powerful than the than than what people were using like just uh a few decades ago to produce like Hollywood movies. Oh, I know right in my pocket, I've got it right on my desktop.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

I know. I can't believe it when people say, you know, I hate technology. I love technology for that very reason what you're saying. It's so much easier than it was back in the day, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Yeah, and if we can leverage technology and so, you know, it's like people carry this passion in their heart. And and at one time there was just this huge problem that stood between like the the pro that the passion that they had and the possibility that they could envision. So, you know, you carry something in your heart, man. I I think I could, I think I've got a book in me.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

I think I could reach people with this message, I think I could help people with this with this idea, with this message, with this training, whatever else it may be. But there was just this huge problem that stood between that, and and largely that was like, well, you there's just not the means.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Yeah, the chasms.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Yes, yeah, you needed, you needed someone else to provide the means to make that possible, so and and now just by leveraging technology, as you say, um you can just just from your laptop. I mean, just you don't even need any kind of expensive or complicated software. Um, and like I say, I actually run a business that's like done well over $900,000 in royalties, and largely other people are doing the heavy lifting for me, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

So at every stage, do you mean it's it's like I've learned I've learned the art of delegation, which is um but but that's a different conversation.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yes, absolutely. So, in your journey, from what you what I've heard so far, you always had this interest in writing and even photocopying pages and putting them together. But five years ago, something changed for you and you started looking at the opportunity. Did you face any challenges when you were actually starting to publish books? And I'm gonna ask you a few more questions about publishing books because I know people are interested in that. Did you come across any challenges in the beginning that might be challenges that people might face today?

SPEAKER_00 12:17

Yeah, well, I mean, I think some of the challenges, it initially, anyways, uh, when whenever you kind of move into a new arena, there's always gonna be a kind of knowledge gap. That, like, okay, the the the how question. Okay, I know I want to, but how do I do it? Um, and and often the answer to that question is who you can get someone else to do some of that for you. So, for example, you could write a book, you could go to somewhere like fiver.com, um, f I v e r.com, and get someone else, just pay someone else like a nominal amount to format the book for you, or you can buy software that makes it like just super easy. You can even just use Microsoft Word really to create a book and upload to KDP. Um, and and even um Amazon themselves, if you just searched for something like KDP book templates, or um, they've actually got a software now completely free. Um, just look for uh the KDP book creator or something, and and you'll you'll see it come up. And it's like a free software that you basically copy and paste your stuff into, it spits out the right kind of files, and you just upload them to um Amazon. Amazon's publishing site is kdp.amazon.com.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

So you started just searching upload for free.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Yes, yeah. I mean, I started like as with any new skill, I mean, I actually really like learning. I I enjoy I enjoy learning, I enjoy growing, I enjoy, particularly if it's has application. I mean, if you can if it's if it's got an application, I don't like learning for learning's sake, but I love it if I can see a result uh that kind of is the fruit of that learning. Yes, and so I just started really um I'll be honest with you, Marissa. The way that you learn is to do. Absolutely, that's the best way to learn anything. And so uh in those early days, I made all sorts of mistakes, and some of the books that I put out probably looked more like a dog's dinner than they did look than they look like a bestseller. Um, but in it I learned what worked, I learned what didn't. Um, and and sometimes it's just getting over that fear. I I there are two things, I call them the terrible twins procrastination and perfectionism, and they just kill so many people's dreams. Perfectionism says, you know, well, I can't I can't actually release this until it's perfect. Well, man, you'll be waiting till Jesus comes back. Because that's when perfect that that's that's when perfection's gonna land, you know. But until then, you know, we're we're we're like in some respects climbing uphill. Yeah, and and then procrastination is just such a killer of people's uh ambitions, godly ambitions and dreams, where they just feel, you know, oh, I've got this idea in my heart, but I need to know everything about the whole thing before I even begin. Well, just begin where you are. If you want to write a book, do you know what you need to do? Just write. Start writing, open Microsoft Word up, open up a uh like whatever note thing you work with. It doesn't even have to be Microsoft Word, and and just and just start writing.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Um, and and then when you face the next step, okay, so like you've written the book, okay. How do I now kind of um squeeze this into a format that can I can upload and self-publish through Amazon or there are other platforms as you know, um, well, face that question when the question is imminent, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

And so that's really how I've how I've worked in my business. Um, is you know, I've I've learned on the run, if you like, I've kind of when I've run into a problem, um, and and again, the the internet has given us such an incredible wealth of opportunity to just Google something, or I mean, I don't know if YouTube something is is actually a phrase, but you know, that's another place. It's just like yeah, anything you want to know, anything, anything you want to find out, any skill you want to learn, you can do it largely for free.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Yes, so true. I'd love how to there should never be that that technological kind of roadblock or fear or fear, we can just caught yeah, yeah, it's honestly it's honestly an excuse. Yeah, I love what you said about the challenges. Uh, oftentimes we face that procrastination or perfectionism, which really is rooted in fear. Perfectionism is because we want to appear a certain way, right? We want to have people's favor, and the other procrastination, we're afraid to launch, we're afraid to start. So tell us if somebody is ready, somebody is listening to saying, Oh wow, I want to I want to be like David, I want to start writing a book, but where do I start? Can you give us like a few tips on what they can do to start even putting something together, a topic?

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Yeah, yeah. I mean, for for me, I um and uh Marissa, we've we've spoken about this briefly, briefly before. I have a very much um uh reader-centric view when it comes to books. I don't believe a book really fulfills its purpose until it's actually being read by someone. That's why we write the book. And so rather than um kind of wait until the book is written and published and all kind of shiny and lovely and new, and then think about okay, how do I actually find my readers? I tend to like just start where I where I intend to finish and begin with the reader very much at the forefront of my thinking. And so, in that I'll go to somewhere like Amazon, and this is true for fiction or nonfiction. Find out what people are already reading, find out the conversations that are already taking place, find out the problems that people are already looking to be solved, and then look for ways in which you can offer um either satisfaction, so like it with my fiction readers, they love a certain kind of story. I'm very happy to give it to them. As long as it's not in any way compromised or ungodly, I'm very happy to serve that that desire and that need. And with the nonfiction, most of the time, nonfiction, I think people are looking for a solution to a problem.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

You know, that it's it's a problem that they're trying to solve, a question that they're looking to answer. And say, and and it doesn't take long of just kind of digging around. I uh my main place of research is Amazon itself. If I'm gonna sell a book, I want to go where I want to begin where people are buying books, look and see what are the conversations that are happening here, what are the problems that are being solved, and that readers are clearly looking to kind of discover a way through and a solution to, and then uh consider how can I, or it may be that there's someone else that you can work with and partner with, how can I bring some, how can I um resolve this for my readers? Um, and then obviously, I mean, sometimes then the question comes, well, other people have written it, other people have written books, they're so much better than me, and la la la la, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, all of those voices. Honestly, if you infuse your your own writing, if you infuse your books with all of who you are as a person, no one else has got your history, no one else has got your kind of your experience, no one else shares your story, right? And all of that is baked because I'm I'm like, I I don't know if it comes across here on audio, but I'm like a passionate guy. It's you're like, I'm a heart man, and and I think for me, when I'm looking at um writing a book, like I say, I'll begin with the reader in mind, but then I'll also ask myself the question, and this is even prior to beginning to write, what is this book going to do for my reader? Not not will it do not what will it do for me and my ego, or uh not even what will this do for me and my bank account, although that although maybe the ego or not, but that you know, asking the bank account questions not shouldn't be taboo. I mean we can we can be looking to both serve and be served in this kind of symbiotic, is that the word? I know synergistic relationship that we have with the with the people that we bring value to. Um and so I'll I'll be asking, what will the what can my book do for the reader? And like have that very much in mind when I'm writing.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

Like I'm looking to get a result for them, I'm looking to move them forward, I'm looking to kind of move the needle for them through what I write.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

And then also that that the the question of How does this I think that the word that I use is resonance that I want my books to resonate with the reader and and to to to resonate means to be uh deep and full. If you look up the definition, and it means that some if something has resonance, it evokes emotion, it evokes it evokes images, it evokes emotion. It moves someone beyond just kind of the neck up.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

No, I get what you're saying. To me, like particularly non-fiction is not about inf not so much about transfer of information, unless you're writing a technical manual, you know, it's about transformation, it's about how can I impart something as well as inform. Right. I love that. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 23:36

It does. So the first step would be to research and see what people are already buying or looking for, and then kind of even go deeper and investigate to see maybe where the gap is, maybe some somewhere again thinking about the topic that is that people are buying books and interested in and seeing what else we can how we can add value. How can we bring our perspective, our knowledge, our experiences, talk about the topic but in a different way, maybe fill the gap, so to speak. That would be step two. Okay, gotcha. Because I I love what you always you say, um Peter.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

I would say Marissa, just to add to the conversation. It's not even so much that we, I think some sometimes people get caught and and get a bit snagged on this idea that everything they have to that they bring to the marketplace has to be like incredibly original. But original to quite honestly is a little overrated because sometimes if something is so far, if something is so far out there beyond people's regular experience and the questions they are actually asking in their daily lives, then oftentimes it's like it just doesn't, like I say, that resonance. It doesn't resonate with them. It's like, well, wow, that's really clever, that's really amazing, that sounds so like intelligent or spiritual or whatever else it may be, but it doesn't relate to my everyday life. Um and so so, yes, I mean it's it's I I would just say to people, absolutely, you're looking for those it in some ways, it's uh I wouldn't call it the gap, I would call it just those niche topics. So, like areas where you've drilled down beyond just this broad, broad, broad spectrum, which is like if we try and create something for everyone, essentially it's for no one.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Because not everyone is not looking for the same thing, they're looking for something very specific. And the more specific we can be, sometimes the the kind of easier it is for whatever we bring to the marketplace to land people.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Okay, awesome.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

But in that, in that trying, don't not get caught on trying to be like over-original in what you bring. I mean, for me, for example, I love to pray. I'm a praying, praying man, and I can read books on prayer like uh again and again. I can read a book about prayer, and you know, before I've even finished that one, I'm looking for the next one. And is the next one going to necessarily have anything incredibly different or vastly like something that I've never heard or never seen before? Probably unlikely, quite honestly, because the principles remain the same. The problems that people are looking to overcome, they've been the same, like since since Adam messed up in the garden. And um, and so I would just encourage anyone listening. Man, you have got something already, you have got something to bring.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

Right, right. I I love that because in public speaking, it's similar to oftentimes people try to look for that epic story, like someone that climbed Mount Everest or something. And of course, it's an amazing story, but not all of us can connect to a story like that because not all of us will go climb Mount Everest, right? And so I understand what you're saying that resonates, so it resonates with someone, and and so the book doesn't have to necessarily be long either to do that. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 27:40

Oh, I'm I'm I'm very much a short book person. Short book. I think a book I that like often people will ask me, how long does a book need to be? And I say, Well, just as long as it needs to be to deliver on whatever promise you made in on the cover. I love it, love it, and no more, and no more. I mean, I'm I'm very much uh, you know, it's it there's there's so much fluff in the world. There's just so much like and and quite honestly, we've only got so much time. Right. Really, I I if if you can tell me in 50 pages, please don't make me read 300.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Yeah, and for those bottom liners like myself, get to the point, get to the point. You know, I'm reading something going, get to the point, get to the point. I don't need the fluff.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

So talk about two different kinds of books. Um, you know, I talk about peak publications, which is where you know that that's the Everest story. That's where, like, man, I've reached the peak, I'm looking back and I'm, you know, speaking to the the world, this my my kind of industry-shifting, life-changing message. Um, and and some of those books, those perennial books that just like are, you know, they they they land on the planet and they are like, man, that is a classic. You know, within its first week of publication, it's like that's a classic piece of work. But quite honestly, they're few and far between. And then I talk about like share the journey publications, and I I I, you know, I I'm I'm very much an advocate of share the journey publications, and in in that, rather than kind of being the person up on the mountain peak looking down to base camp, saying, like, come up here, and we're all standing in base camp thinking, well, I would love to, but I have no idea how. You know, uh a share the journey publication is very much like it, like it kind of uh indicates, is I've taken some steps, I've learned some things, and I'm just gonna reach my hand back, and I'm gonna take the hand of someone who's just a few steps behind me, and I'm gonna give them a leg up so they can move toward their dream, that they can move closer to their destination with my help and with what little wisdom I've learned in that short space of journey that I've taken, you know, prior to them. I'm not gonna wait until I reach the peak.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

I'm not gonna wait until I'm 85 before before I actually just turn around and say, look, I don't know everything, but I've learned a few things, and I'm gonna share in this book a few of the things that have worked, and also maybe let you know a few of the things that didn't, so you can avoid them.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

And in that, those kind of share the journey type publications, as you say, can be short because they're not trying to be everything, they're just sharing. Oh, look, this bit, this part, this element, I can help you with. And and also, you know, there's a big difference between the mindset that says, Oh, I've got to create this amazing book, and it's it's got to be so clever, and it's got to be so deep, and it's got to have a hundred thousand words and whatever else. Uh the share the journey mentality is like, well, it doesn't have to be perfect because I'm not perfect. Um, and I'm just gonna share what I know now, and quite honestly, I might get a bit further down the road and look back and think, oh, well, I've learned some more things since then. Maybe I'll unpublish that one because I've actually found a better way to do this, right? But not to be too precious over things. I mean, we're called to equip. I mean, uh there's a there's a great scripture that talks about equipping the saints for the work of the ministry. And the work of the ministry isn't just standing in a pulpit preaching a message or strumming a guitar at conference time, you know. The work of the ministry is us out in the marketplace just as much as it's, you know, and as I say, we pastored for many years. So it's not either or, it's both and. But you know, out in the marketplace, we need people who are bringing solutions in every realm, in every situation.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

I love that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

So so this isn't just about um, this isn't just about, all right, let's write the spiritual book, let's write a devotional, or let's write a book about prayer or worship or whatever else. I mean, I've written books about how to publish books. I've written books, uh, I've written children's books, I've written cookbooks. Well, I didn't write those, I heard someone else write them for me because I saw a I saw what you talk about, the the the gap or the the the kind of niche in the market where I could serve.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

Um, I I we've published books on all sorts of things. I mean I love that on the arts, how it's never limited you.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

You see the need, you see the interest, and you think, how can I show up? How can I serve? How can I add value to that interest? So I love that. I I love how you just go ahead and write on different topics. Now, if someone is is ready to write, they they know their topic, they know what it is, how they can show up and contribute maybe their journey, their steps. Um, you talk about various ways that we can actually, I think three ways to to write your book. Can you share those three ways? Because I think that would be really practical and helpful.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously the first way is to write it yourself. And and sometimes, to be honest, this is something that people never think of. Like they they immediately assume that they have to write it themselves and then discount themselves from being able to do it because they say, Well, I'm not a writer, you know, I was dumb at school, I didn't get my exams or whatever else it was, you know, etc. etc. And um uh but that there are other ways to do this. You can you can actually get someone else to write your book for you, and that doesn't mean that you and so so you bring your idea, you bring your outline, and then hire someone else to actually do the writing for you. That's how I've built my fiction business. I've had ideas and thought, well, this would really work in this marketplace. I I I I've got clueless how to actually write it myself. I could, but it would be a far less accomplished piece of work if I tried to do it myself. And this is where we fall, you know, some people think, oh, but that's cheating. And and there are some like some people in the kind of author sphere who like it's very taboo to talk about ghostwriters, you know, like you're committing some sin. But quite honestly, sometimes that is the wisest and most um most caring, isn't the word, but if you know what I mean, when we're when we've got the reader in view, when we've got the reader in the frame, I can provide them with a better experience if someone else writes this book than I can. And to a degree, that's like a bit of a humble pie type situation. But I realized, look, if I want to serve these people, maybe the best way I can do it is to have someone else take my idea and the kind of put the put the flesh on the bones.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

Uh, the best place that I found to do that um is upwork.com. I've hired a lot of writers at upwork.com for anyone who's interested in knowing how to go about doing that. You can just post a job, you don't pay to post a job, and people will pitch for the work. You can get examples of their previous work, etc., and then choose whether you want to hire them or not.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

Gotcha, gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

Of course, the third the third way, and I think that to a degree, this is probably the one that I like the most, is like a hybrid of the two. So you you kind of build your book out in your your idea and your kind of the framework that you want to uh create the book around. Get someone else to create the first draft of the book, and then obviously you then take that and you just add your voice and your flavor and and and work with that. So instead of working with just like a bag of bones, you're actually working with that, you know, you've got quite a lot of raw material that you can then work into your final draft.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

I love it. I love how you redefine ghostwriting. And really the word that came to mind is selfless, because if you have the reader in mind first, you will do whatever it takes to be able to provide the best value. And if that means getting a ghostwriter, then so be it, so that the reader benefits. So I've never heard that before. So I love how you phrase that. You've given us so much value, so much to think about here. And the fact that you're doing this, you're actually doing it so it works. And I think this will give people a lot of hope as far as those that want to become writers, publish writers, and that it's not as difficult, especially today, as you talked about technology. It's we've got so many tools today. And boy, we need some positive voices out there in the world today, don't we?

SPEAKER_00 37:54

We do indeed. And I believe that whoever's listening to this can be one of those voices. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 38:01

So, David, how can if somebody wanted to connect with you or maybe buy one of your books or something, what's the best place? How can they find you?

SPEAKER_00 38:09

Um, uh, they could go to my website, davidleemartin.com. Okay, it's probably the best place. It's it's kind of a work in progress at the moment, but uh one way or another, they'll be able to kind of get in touch with me. And um, if they're interested in uh I I actually run something called the Christian Creative Academy. So um the ChristianCreative.academy is the website for that. That is actually very much centered around helping people crystallize their value into products, publications, platforms. So there's a heap of training in there. How to write a book, how to publish a book, how to create an online course is another one, etc. etc. So yeah, ChristianCreative.academy or my website, davidlemartin.com, is a is a good place to begin.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

Awesome. Do you have any last words for aspiring writers? Something that might encourage them.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

Uh well, I would say just write. I I mean it sounds like it sounds a bit kind of twee, but honestly, you've just the the only I I there's this thing, there's this idea that oh well, I have to be a writer and then I will write. No, you write, and that's what makes you a writer. You know, like this is it's like again that so so often we have things the wrong way around. Yeah, it's actually in the doing that we enter into the becoming, yes, and as we do, we become, as we do, we we we kind of get a sense of who we are, we get a sense of the voice that we bring to the marketplace. And if you're waiting for that to come before you begin, I can assure you you are you're gonna be waiting like a long time because it's in the journey and in the trying and in the testing and the experimenting that that discovery begins to take place.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

Oh, well, thank you, David, so much. You've given us so much to think about, and thank you for being the man of God that you are and for all the books that you've written and helped publish. I know it's blessed to many people. So thank you so much for joining me for this podcast interview.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

That's an absolute pleasure, Marissa. Thank you for giving me the opportunity. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Take care, take care, everyone. Bye-bye. If you found this podcast helpful, then subscribe from wherever you're listening today so you never miss an episode. Every subscription, review, or rating means so much to me. So keep them coming and share this with a friend. For more free content, go to marissachrick.com and remember keep cultivating resilient faith online to create positive change in the world.