SPEAKER_00 0:35

Welcome to Amplify Your Authority, the podcast where innovative marketing meets heart-centered entrepreneurship. Join Marissa Shadrick, an award-winning international speaker, Ray Edwards certified copywriter, and personal brand expert. You'll gain insights into the external strategies for business growth and how to navigate the internal journey of entrepreneurship. Now get ready to amplify your authority in a competitive digital world. And now is your host, Marissa Shadrick.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

Hello and welcome to Amplify Your Authority, podcast recorded live on LinkedIn. I'm Marissa Shadrick. I'm an online marketing strategist and also a certified copywriter. And today, once a month, I have the lovely Kathy Farrah with me. She is a convert kit strategist. Welcome, Kathy.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Hello. How is everyone?

SPEAKER_03 1:25

I hope everyone's doing well because we're in the summer, right? Summer's a lot of fun, activity, all kinds of things going on. What's your favorite thing to do in the summer, Kathy? Before we kick off here.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

I wish I could be more outside more. I don't get the opportunity as much.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

Well, you know I'm in Tennessee now, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:45

Yes. So uh 4th of July. To experience a different type of summer.

SPEAKER_03 1:51

Yeah, yeah, it's a different summer. And man, we're already we're gonna go to the Grand Old Opry and we're gonna go there. We got tickets for that. My granddaughter's gonna come visit. We're going to Dollywood. All right. I feel like I need to get a cowboy hat and boots or something, you know, living here.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

But it's just truly fit in. And now you're probably dealing with humidity and some of the other qualities.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

It's funny because people say it's humid and it feels like it did when I was living in Nevada in the desert. That's what it feels like. So it just feels like, oh, it's hot, just like it was in Vegas. So it really, I'm used to the heat, so it doesn't really bother me. And in fact, I like the heat. I like the heat. So um, so it's pretty good. But I'm just kind of enjoying everything. And I know, I don't know, depending on when this broadcast, the replay is, for those of you listening live, uh, 4th of July is going to be a big three-day party around here. There's all kinds of things going on, concerts and stuff, you know, park activities, because it is music capital, man. They got lots of music everywhere. So, anyway, I hope everybody else is having a great summer and enjoying a little bit of work and play at the same time, that work-life balance. Today we're going to be talking about websites, specifically homepage. And so I thought it would be a good idea to talk about it because they're very similar to our lead magnet, aren't they, Kathy?

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Yeah, I would definitely agree. You want something that's very clear, right? So and and concise as to what you're doing. And both of those, uh, your lead magnet and your homepage kind of act in that same way of kind of quickly telling someone what you're about.

SPEAKER_03 3:42

Exactly. What you're on. And so the same principles, because it's all copywriting, right? It's all about audience, it's all about being direct and clear. So there's a lot of similarities. And hopefully after today, you'll begin to see how similar they are. And that way, when you're working either on a lead magnet or you're tweaking your home page, um, you'll understand that you don't have to really wear a different hat. One thing I will say is don't stress about building out a huge website because when I first started, and I'll see if this was the same for you, Kathy. I didn't have a whole lot to put on there.

unknown 4:21

Right.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

It was like I'm scratching my head thinking, what do I put on here? So if you if you're not sure, that's okay. It will evolve, it will grow. You will have more uh types of products that you offer once you engage with your clients. You will have more clarity as far as where you're dialing in in your niche. All of that will evolve. So as long as you start with who you serve and what you do, and you have some basic things, really the homepage is all you really need, a way for them to contact you. If you have a home page, an about page and a contact page, that's that's good. That's enough. And then later on, you know, if you have a blog or if you have a podcast, or if you have a lot of testimonials, or you have maybe a real, maybe some kind of um video clip about your origin story. You can add all that later, but please don't stress about trying to build out this whole website. What do you think, Kathy? Did you have the same issue I had?

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Yes, absolutely. You know, trying to dial in who you really are gonna work with, um, exactly what you're going to offer. For me, it evolved. Like I started off in one direction, and it was as I was working with clients that I started to think, oh, this is a better direction for me. And so everything changed. And I so I didn't start off with an elaborate website, it was very basic. Um, and really at first it was a lot of word of mouth before I even got to the stage of having a website. So it, yeah, as you're trying to figure out and fine-tune all the details, that's the last place you want to put so much pressure on yourself is having the website put up immediately when you're still trying to identify who you're working with and what you can offer.

SPEAKER_03 6:13

If you don't have time to work on the website, granted, we're gonna talk about why a website's important, but if you don't have time, at least have a landing page for your resource, your lead magnet. Start growing your email list as quickly and as quickly as you can, before the website, before the logo, before everything else. Um, start doing that. So if you don't have anything else, have that first and offer some type of free resource.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

And don't put so much pressure on yourself for it to all be perfect. Like I think that's a lot of times when I work with clients, it's that fear, like just having a landing page and building your email list is like, what am I gonna say to them? You know, it's they start to stress about it and so they avoid it, and then you end up wasting some time where you could have been building your email list. I know I made that mistake. I was a little hesitant to, I was still in that perfectionism mode. And once I started realizing, like, oh wait, I need to hurry up. I need to start building an email list, it's time.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

Yeah, I I would say out of all the priorities, all the things we could possibly do is start going that email list first thing. And then as you do that and you start getting some clients, you might even be able to hire somebody to do your website. And then you won't have to do it yourself, right? Wouldn't that be great? Yes, yes, exactly. I'm I'm so picky and I I put my fingers in the website all the time. So I'm always like tweaking things. And my my web guy, he he does all that. And he goes, You're the only client I allow to go in there and do all that stuff. And it's because I don't know, I'm a control freak or something, I don't know, but I have to just tweak it so because I've got this picture in my head of what I want, and and I it's just harder to explain to him. I know it's wrong. You're supposed to be able to outsource and pass things on, but there's certain things that I like a certain way. So anyway, it's just the way it is.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

I think we all have clients like you.

SPEAKER_03 8:18

If you have clients like me, I am sorry, I apologize. You know, ahead of time, I apologize. But um, but I understand when I have clients that way too, so I can understand and empathize with them and meet them where they are because I understand that. So um, so anyway, website, why it matters. Some people would say, Kathy, but Kathy, I have a following on Instagram and I have a following on Facebook. I even have a Facebook group and it's going pretty well. Why do I need a website? What would you say to them?

SPEAKER_02 8:53

I would say you want to be able to own what's happening with your audience. The and I think we've heard this often is that social media, you don't know if they're going to see what you've put out there. I mean, that the whether you'll have an audience, whether you end up losing it for some reason, the algorithm changes. Um, there's so many variables that are out of your control. Whereas with a website, you're controlling what content is being put out. And as you evolve and maybe add a blog post and things like that, that information you know can will be seen versus social media where it's it's not a guarantee.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

You want to try to get them off of social media as quickly as possible. Wink wink, your lead magnet, to bring them into your ecosystem. Because again, like Kathy said, we just don't know what's going to happen on those platforms. They're great and they're free, but because they're free, we we just don't have any control over it. Um, you know, the the algorithms change, everything changes.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

Yeah, and something else that I think about too is think about how you handle social media. Like oftentimes when I'm looking at social media, it's fly by different things. I might pause for a moment and scan a post, you know, but unless I'm being intentional, which isn't always the case, you're just going by. But when you go to a website, your intent is to read whatever may be there. Hopefully, if it's great content, you're gonna be pulled into that and continue reading. But just how we handle our behavior and going into those different places should tell you a lot about how your ideal audience is probably interacting as well with your social media versus your website.

SPEAKER_03 10:49

And the organic reach too, why would we want to promote other platforms and not promote our own and get that organic reach to our website? So, you know, I think it's really important to realize we can we can work with both those other outside platforms strategically, but to keep in mind once we have our lead magnet and once we have the funnel built, work on at least having a home page. And you could you could kind of cheat and put a little bit about you and your resource and maybe how to contact you on the home page. If you really don't have time to build out tabs and other pages, you could get away with it with one page. It'll kind of look like a like a sales page almost, but it could be very informative, very succinct, very simple. You know, everyone does websites a little differently. So you can, as long as you have the essentials, which is what we're gonna talk about, you're okay. You're okay. So don't feel like it's wrong or you have to. It's it's an ongoing thing. We're always tweaking. Yes. I wish you could say it's done. I had to cave. I don't know if I told you this, but I had to update the buttons for the podcast on my website because some of those some of those platforms aren't there anymore, you know. And so I had to update to uh I think to Pandora, and I had to update and have a button for uh, what was it, iHeartMedia and things like that. Because when I started, there were some others that were predominant. And so I went, oh man, it's outdated. I gotta update that. So we're always tweaking. So anyway, but ownership is the key. We own it, it's our own. And uh seeing that you have your own business, it's good to own your platform, and also to be able to get them off of the social platforms into your ecosystem, which does something magical. They go from being too cold to now, yes, they start joining our email list, right? And that's that's your area, right? There's nothing like a nice warm lead. And then what can you do with them, Kathy? Since this is your area, once they're in, what happens?

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Now you can actually build a more authentic relationship with that person and you can talk more about you know, providing them value, kind of really understanding more about that person and what their struggles are, and then really being able to show them how your solution can help them solve those problems.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Yep. And now you can share a little bit about your personality. You can have a video for your email list, you can do all kinds of things on your website, you can direct them to content that you have on your website, you can do all kinds of things once they're in your ecosystem. And the frequency, you can decide that as well. And it's just so much better because they're no longer coal, just kind of spectators looking at things on social. They have raised their hand and said, Yes, I'm interested in what you have. And now they are part of your community, your responsibility. And they are more than an email address, they're real people with real dreams and struggles and goals and ambitions. They're real people. So when you write to them, and Kathy, I'm sure you agree because we have similar philosophies on this, you write like you're writing to a friend, conversational. Conversational. Yeah, it's so important.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

So that that's something to keep in mind, just on a side note, for people that don't feel like they're copywriters or writers, just writing the way you would write to a friend would take a lot of pressure off. And then maybe you're tweaking a little bit, but being able to talk to one person on one topic and kind of keeping things simple.

SPEAKER_03 14:49

I just wrote something for uh my community, my email list um on finding your voice, you know, and it was exactly this just the way you you talk, you want to be able to communicate that way. Obviously, you're gonna clean it up a little bit because the way we talk and the written word, sometimes it's really needs a little bit of cleanup, especially in my case. But um, when you do clean it up, grammarly will hate you, but your readers will love you because grammarly will try to correct everything and have it more formal. So just know that if you see a lot of little red from Grammarly or something, look at it and decide wait, this is the way I talk, and this is the way I want to evoke my personality. So it's okay. Grammarly, thank you, but no, thank you. So I find that that I'm always fighting with Grammarly and those correction tools because they don't like the way I talk. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

It's a teacher, it's an English teacher in the background telling.

SPEAKER_03 15:47

I know, I know. I feel like I would tapping on the ruler or something. I go, stop it. So for sure. So okay, ownership was the first one. Why we want a web home page at least. The audience shift. Now they're not cold, now they're warm, they're in our ecosystem. And then again, we touched on it earlier. We have an organic advantage. Using those keywords in content that we put on our website, making sure those keywords are on each page of our website. That's going to help us with organic reach. So, what does organic reach do? Kathy.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

It helps to draw them in in an unpaid way. So you're not having to pay for ads. They're coming, they're finding you based off of the problem that you solve. Yeah, for free, man.

SPEAKER_03 16:40

For free. And it helps us get rank on on Google too, when we use keywords, because you know, Google dishes out all that keyword information for us. And so when we align our content that way and our pages that way using keywords, then it helps us rank. And who doesn't want free traffic? That's awesome. And that's something that, and I noticed that that LinkedIn, I don't know what they do on the back end, but it ranks really well. A lot of times I see LinkedIn stuff come up first before their actual website, so which is really weird. But it does. A lot of the newsletters, articles, and things like that will rank in Google.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

So whatever they're doing, they're I heard someone tell me, I asked about the same thing because I I marveled at the uh the fact that my LinkedIn post really kind of showed up more. And someone said they're not in direct, you know, competition with Google as far as Google's concerned, LinkedIn versus like say Instagram or Facebook or some of those other social media.

SPEAKER_03 17:47

Yeah, it's interesting, huh? Because I'll see it. Well, well, today I actually I put in my name. Today my website is actually ranking first when I type my name. That's good. So I finally beat LinkedIn because I have been updating my website. This has been a saga. This has been the thing for the last two, three months. I've been updating my website, cleaning up my keywords, trying to rank certain pages, doing all that geeky, techie stuff. And um, I noticed that now my website comes up first and then LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

So and something about that too, that it takes time. It takes time for those SEO rankings to kind of inch its way up further to page one of the Google search results. So yeah, don't stress if you're not seeing it immediately after making those updates. It takes time for the system to kind of see you.

SPEAKER_03 18:41

It does, but you could see a difference like within 30 days sometimes. I mean that quickly. So um, when you think of it, 30 days is nothing. I mean, we're already in July practically.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

Like June, for instance.

SPEAKER_03 18:52

Yeah, I was gonna say I know the months are flying. I'm gonna be Christmas shopping pretty soon. But in any event, so those are the three things that are really important uh about website, why it matters. Ownership is a one, audience shift. You no longer are working with cold, but warm leads, and the organic advantage, right? Being able to direct people to your website. So, as far as some insights, there's some things that you probably need on your website. And I'm gonna actually use Kathy's website as an example, but definitely you want a header, and you guys know what a header is. You know, it's the very top of the website, it's what they call above the fold before you scroll down, and so it's very similar to lead magnets, right? Very similar to that. So you want to walk us through, Kathy, some just don't even, I mean, we don't even overthink this. I mean, just think of the things that you would have on a lead magnet, and you would want to have something like that at the top of the fold. And so let's walk them through that.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

So I would say a clear, concise headline that makes it clear what you're trying to how you're trying to grab their attention. Um, a subheadline, so it's something that kind of helps to build it out the headline a little bit more, give a little bit more information, and then some type of call to action to where it's very clear what is the next step that you want them to take. Are you wanting them to book a discovery call with you? Do you want them to, you know, register for something free? So you want to kind of have all of that, and then possibly even a picture of yourself potentially. So that varies on what people do, but just kind of something that's very clear, the above the fold that just allows someone to be able to make within a split second understand what you're providing them.

SPEAKER_03 20:54

Right. Because I know everyone, the listeners, and you and I have both probably experienced this. We go to a website and we can't tell right away what is it that they do? What do they offer? I'm not sure. It has a title, has a title and a subtitle, but I'm still not sure what do you sell? And so this is the question we're trying to answer. So it it definitely the home page has a purpose, and we have to be very intentional to explain to them what it is that we offer. And so that way they go, oh, okay, I see what this is about. This is about email marketing. Oh, I see what this is about. You know, this is about, you know, online traffic strategies, or I see what this is about. This is about creating videos. And so they need to know at a glance exactly what it is. And just like Kathy said, sometimes we can't squeeze all that in in a headline. So a subhead allows us a little bit more text to unpack it and give them a little bit more details. And then yeah, you can have an image. You can have an image of your freebie, you can have an image of you, you could have a video on top as long as it's short. Don't make it too long, as long as it's short. I would keep it about a minute. Just say hello to them, keep it real short. And um typically, like either you could have benefits. It depends on what you have at the top, and obviously a call to action, but you keep it very succinct and very short. I don't even know if mine even has benefits on it. What I have is um uh short little um sentences that could look like bullets, but I just didn't put the bullet in front of it. Short little sentences, but um it needs to just be able to explain why you're there, what you sell, so they know and they can identify. And then what people sometimes do, they kind of elaborate in the next section of a website and they'll probably they can explain like what some of the the problems are with that topic and why people struggle with it. There could be a section about that. Donald Miller calls it um the stakes, what's at stake. And so you could have something like that. But if you if you don't have that all built out, I would just go to your menu of services, which Kathy, you did a great job with that on yours.

SPEAKER_02 23:13

If you want to explain what that is you're outlining the way you work with people and the types of services that that are available that you can offer kind of addressing the problems. Again, you're you're wanting to be the solution and that's kind of the reason why people are looking at websites is to seek out a solution to a problem, a challenge. And so just listing out kind of what you do.

SPEAKER_03 23:40

Yeah. And this is especially true for for like Kathy because she provides services she's a service provider. So having that there for people that want that type of service is really helpful. So they can see okay she does this, this, and this because she'll do it for you, right? And so that's really important. And then another area that would be really helpful if you have it is proof of some sort social proof which you have also. It doesn't hurt. Now if you don't have any testimonials yet or anything don't worry you could kind of work through if you're just starting out and do some pro bono do some uh exchange of some sort and do some freebie stuff for someone that maybe they'll they'll share what they do with you and you share what you do with them and exchange for some feedback. And if that feedback is positive, then you put it on your website. Don't put it in there if it's negative. But if it's positive you could put it on there right because it's not a lie. It's just you didn't get paid for it yet because you haven't built your clientele. So it's more like an endorsement right than a testimonial.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

It's more like an even having a few questions be one, don't be afraid to ask because people when you really have helped somebody people are more than happy you know seize the moment as soon as that project's over or that experience is over ask if they're willing to do a testimonial and then even having a couple of questions to guide it towards as far as like what you want to highlight of that working experience paid or not at least kind of shows you know what you're able to do for somebody else.

SPEAKER_03 25:25

Yeah. And when I first started I didn't have I was doing some clients but I was doing them for agency. So I didn't have my own. So I leveraged some of my mentors and so on my website I had a wonderful endorsement from Ray Edwards and then I had a wonderful endorsement from Mike Kim and then I had a great endorsement who I did do some work for well I did work for all of them actually but that was later down the road in the beginning I hadn't yet for Jonathan Milligan. And I used those as endorsements because I wanted people when they came to my page to know that I wasn't some crazy lady. But even if I was I was a nice crazy lady right so so I thought and I that's what I asked them. I said could you give me an endorsement so people just know I'm not a crazy lady and they gave me some endorsement. So you could do something like that and get an endorsement and a backing so that people don't think that you're a crazy person either. So anyway so it's pretty simple you can build on this but I would say that is key uh the header that's real clear uh menu of services or how you help people some social proof of some endorsements if you just have that that would be enough in the beginning and make sure that there's a way that they can either download a free resource or schedule a call with you can always use pop-ups to to do that. So um there's more but I I think we'll keep it to the basics and I'm gonna I'm gonna share with you um Kathy's so you can see hers because I think hers is really good because it is to the point. Is that okay if I do that Kathy? Yes wanted to double check I thought you said yes it was okay so yeah so let me let me find where I can share my um my uh screen and go here all right can you see that Kathy yes I can so right from the beginning when you look at it are you sending emails to a cold audience question mark discover how to revive your email list using ai boom is that clear or what that is like super clear you know exactly and that's what we're talking about and she's got a little box first name and another little box next to it email and a nice beautiful kind of a uh what color is that it's kind of like an orange a soft muted orange get your free scripts now there you go that's all you really need I know exactly what it is she does now as I go further down now that's above the fold as I go further down I see a lovely picture of her beautiful picture and she says hi I'm Kathy Vera your convert kit email marketing strategist very friendly and she's got a little paragraph there and then as you go further down we see what I can do for you or what can I what can I do for you and then it shows here different and I love the layout of this because it's got um it's horizontal has three images going across and then there's another row with three images below it and it's very it's not busy it just has re-engagement emails welcome sequences reusable promotional emails convert kit integration convert kit automation and email system audit boom you know exactly what it is and then she's got endorsements down at the bottom I love it because you can exactly know what it is she does. Now if people want to go beyond this they can go in the her she's got pricing and she's got about and work with me and all contact and all those other things and she's got her little LinkedIn up on top but this is what we're talking about making it super clear and super simple and lots of white space so that people know exactly what you do and if that's what they're looking for they're gonna contact you.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

So yeah so how long did it take you to get it to dialed in Kathy let's hear the backstory of this it has taken me a while I mean this was definitely this was the second version of my website and I was I did not like the previous version but as I've worked with you and other coaches I've started to dial in like here are the services and I started realizing go simple. So this time around when I built this website um I did I had a plan it was going to be done in a week because I could go down the rabbit hole just like you of wanting it to be all perfect. And my key objective was to make it very clear as to what I offered and you know for me I like being able to have a lot of white space and easy just to kind of go from one thing to the next understandable. So I sort of changed everything just to give a cleaner look.

SPEAKER_03 30:40

I I love that right at the top it's the lead magnet right it's right there. She's not really saying a lot about it but she's saying discover how to revive your email list using AI. I kind of like that sense of mystery I won't know until I download the darn thing all I know is that it's gonna help revive my email list and I'm gonna use AI which I know is going to make it simple. So and it's right there on top so that is beautiful that's great. Now in contrast um my website um I'm not showing my website I'm showing my lead magnet my website is a little different because I'm trying to build out more of the coaching I still do done for you copywriting and I do copywriting for agencies off and on. But um so it's a little different mine is more monetize your expertise with simple marketing strategies because it's a different thing and it's schedule a discovery call. And then this one too is if I refresh my page it uh triggers a pop up so I have that in it. But um but oops and but here the 52 lead magnet ideas this is very similar to what we're talking about with our website the lead magnet discover 52 lead magnet ideas to build an email list for free. Now why did I use for free? Keyword search keyword search everything that I saw in the area that I wanted to rank in that wasn't too competitive but had some reach to it had build an email list for free. So that's what I used.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

So again we write simple but then we also take in consideration keywords and if there's a place where we could swap it out with keywords swap it out and that's where you go you tweak as time goes on as you spot another keyword doing Google searches and things like that that I that was I went back to my website a couple of times and made some changes like spelling out email marketing versus email strategist you know email marketing because of the keyword.

SPEAKER_03 32:53

And sometimes it's not the word choice we would pick but because the keywords are so perfect um and it does have a good reach and there's not high competition then we need to consider that phrase right if it makes sense. So would I put would I have done that and put for free? I wouldn't have until I did my research and realized I should probably put it in there because it's the headline. And then it just explains under the headline of 52 lead magnet ideas a checklist will help you grow your email list by choosing the ideal resource that attracts and converts browsers into engage targeted subscribers. Pretty simple pretty plain but has to be clear. So it's nothing it's not rocket science but believe it or not just keeping it simple is not easy right it's not easy. So but you see here in this case I decided to add bullets because as many of you know I love bullets and so I have the bullets in there about this free resource I'm probably going to test because this one's fairly new I may condense the bullets or I may remove the bullets and then I have also down here who I am. Now I may test later on and take this out and see how it performs based on the one that's a little longer and a one that's a shorter version. So basically what I'm saying is this is the longer version I may test it against a shorter version. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 34:27

Yes and that's that's what I do as well that's why this time around I did it just very simple without giving a lot of extra information just to see if that changed things.

SPEAKER_03 34:39

Yeah so for sure for sure testing makes a huge difference you just never and it's not like we're doing this all the time you know we we get it done we put it up and then as we check things I don't know about you Kathy I check things maybe about once a month I start looking at numbers and stuff otherwise I'll go crazy. Yeah not see if I'm looking at it anymore. But about a month at a time but really um the longer you go as Kathy kind of touched on earlier the more you'll be able to see it how it's going up and maybe it plateaus and maybe it goes up again and maybe down a little bit and up again. You want to see overall how the thing is performing you want to see where it's getting bottlenecked. Are they are you getting reach but you're getting no clicks um you know all of those things to see if it's an email you would look at different things you know in the analytics to just give you an idea where should I tweak and really the analytics is going to give you a hint of what needs to be tweaked. Does that make sense? Yes yes for sure and I think um and how often do you typically try to do that like quarterly to see whether or not like if a lead magnet's converting or your opt-in's converting to actual I I check about a month like within a month I give it a glance and then I I try to see how it's performing because I don't want to go too long because I may need to tweak something like you said in I don't know if this podcast I just edited one of the podcasts where you we were we were doing a segment together but I don't know if it was that one or this one but sometimes just doing the headline helps tweaking the headline or maybe you don't have keywords and maybe it'd be good to add keywords to give it a little bit more organic boost, right? So uh just little tiny things like that, just one change at a time to see sometimes stock photos might um not perform as well as just a candid shot of you or maybe holding the resource or whatever it might be. Interesting how those candid shots seem like just a everyday post. I just happen to have my phone and I just posted something as opposed to I looked up for a stock photo because I'm going to promote something to you and people go stranger danger right yeah you're right. Yeah it's it's not the easiest game but it's not super difficult once we know what it is that we need to focus on if that makes sense. So it sounds like a lot but really we're focusing on clarity we're focusing on making sure that we have a free resource that people can get to the free resource I would do the same thing look for keyword search and uh really trying to help them take that next step reach that milestone remove that irritation whatever it is that's causing them to you know not have a smooth day let's put it that way. I wouldn't say they're losing sleep over it because I don't lose sleep over anything. I sleep like a rock but anyway but they it may be an irritation you know let's put it that way it's an irritation that's just bugging them that they they have this thing lingering that they need to get done and get finished. So um so the clarity of your website really helps and so hopefully that will encourage you to do that and be able to make sure that your website is super super clear because that's the most important piece of it. So anything else Kathy that you want to share as far as website?

SPEAKER_02 38:19

I was gonna say I think this covered everything really well and simple.

SPEAKER_03 38:25

Mm-hmm and it should be simple. Yeah if it's simple and you think oh that's just too simple I don't know maybe I should say more chances are it's probably good. And you know it doesn't hurt to have somebody maybe even in your household read it and see if they somebody that's not familiar with what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 38:44

Like I think if you get somebody that's kind of a beginner to what you do and see if it makes sense to them because if it's only you can only it's something that you're not clearly explaining that and it only could be someone that's in your ideal audience that would get it. It's probably a little too complicated if you're just you know starting out like I want someone to look at it and go, I don't know exactly what you do but I'm clear on what you have here.

SPEAKER_03 39:11

Right. I use my husband a lot because he's his mind works differently. I don't know if it's because he's a man or what but he's he's very analytical but he he sees things differently than I do. I'm very visual and so I'll show him something because I respect his opinion and if it doesn't make sense or he's reason reads it twice, I go okay give it back to me I'm gonna look at this again because I want it to make sense to him and he doesn't know a lot about what I do. He understands sales and he understands marketing but the digital space is a little different because he does something different.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

So I always use him kind of as a test to see does this make sense to you or he'll say what do you mean by this or and then I just go back to the drawing board because we're all a work in progress right we're not saying and I would say even reading it out loud sometimes you can catch things that if you start stumbling over something when you're trying to read it is a good indicator that maybe that sentence or phrasing is a little too confusing.

SPEAKER_03 40:13

That's such a great point I use speechify and have it read it to me. Yes. Speechify is an extension and I have it read especially if I have a lot of copy read the copy to me and that way as I'm listening to it you know I'll do a double take what did I write that? Or you know all these little tricks that we do to kind of find those places that you know people stumble on but all of that helps uh because we're we're all a work in progress and just because we showed uh the website and our my lead magnet doesn't mean that this is perfect. We're not perfect by any means we're giving it the best shot like I said I'm maybe testing because it's new testing against others that are similar with a few tweaks. So uh we're not saying do it this way because this is perfect because it's it's a work in progress. We're always improving and perfecting things. That's why we're constantly tweaking exactly so anyway Kathy this was wonderful thank you so much for being on the podcast again and sharing your insights I really appreciate and thank you for letting me share your website it looks beautiful well done on that as well.

SPEAKER_02 41:22

Any uh farewell words to everyone no I think everyone have a great summer.

SPEAKER_03 41:27

Yeah have a great summer if you're in Tennessee connect with me because maybe I'll see you in some of the you know outdoor concert festivities or something. Who knows? All right everyone until next time you take care and we'll talk to you soon. Bye bye