SPEAKER_00 0:35

Welcome to Amplify Your Authority, the podcast where innovative marketing meets heart-centered entrepreneurship. Join Marissa Shadrick, an award-winning international speaker, Ray Edwards certified copywriter, and personal brand expert. You'll gain insights into the external strategies for business growth and how to navigate the internal journey of entrepreneurship. Now get ready to amplify your authority in a competitive digital world. And now, here's your host, Marissa Shadrick.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the new Amplify Your Authority podcast, where I am recording live on LinkedIn. I'm Marissa Shadrick, online marketing consultant. And today I am so excited. I have a wonderful guest. Let me tell you a little bit about her before I have her chime in because we're gonna we're gonna chat as if we're sitting and having a cup of coffee because we can like chat it up a lot. So Michelle Raymond is joining me today, and she is an amazing when it comes to LinkedIn company pages. She simply just shines a light on the untapped potential of LinkedIn for B2B organizations. As a seasoned LinkedIn Company page specialist, host of the LinkedIn for B2B growth podcast, and co-author of the LinkedIn branding book and business gold, Michelle brings a wealth of knowledge and insight. She is a highly sought-after speaker, as evidenced by her upcoming appearance as a presenter at Social Media Marketing World 2024, focusing on the pivotal role of LinkedIn in B2B marketing strategies. Welcome, Michelle.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

What an intro. How they do. Oh my God. 10 out of 10. I think I might borrow that one. And thank you for the pinch me moment to reminding me again that I'll be at social media marketing world in like I think it's around a month's time now, depending when this goes live. But it just shows you the importance of LinkedIn and company pages that it's getting recognized to that level. Oh, so yeah, I can't wait to come on my US trip.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

I know it's so exciting. I'm gonna be virtual, so I won't be able to give you a hug, but I will be looking and watching everything. I had to get a virtual ticket this year because there's a lot going on right now. But in any event, I'm excited. I'm so proud of you. Um, I think it's gonna be amazing. That's why I'm glad that we got together beforehand because you're gonna be so sought after and busy. You're not gonna have time for little people like me. So I'm so glad we had a chance to connect. So just to give everybody some background, um, I reached out to you because I saw you on YouTube and your values, the way you view business, the focus on relationships, not the latest hacks and tricks and tools, but it just resonated with me. And I said, Oh my gosh, I gotta meet this lady. And that's when I started stalking you a little bit and we connected, and you could take it from there. What was your experience and how did we end up uh working together a little bit when it comes to LinkedIn?

SPEAKER_03 3:42

I love a good stalk. I'm guilty of doing that myself. And I think the thing that is my favorite part, there's a couple of pieces that you mentioned there. When you show up and just be yourself, like, you know, I don't know if the word authenticity is is used too much or not enough these days. But when you just show up as yourself and you are comfortable sharing what you stand for, what you don't stand for, and you know, don't just kind of snuggle into the crowd and disappear into the sea of same. When you kind of just express all of that, then what happens is you're just like the lighthouse and you guide in all of those great customers that are the perfect fit. And so I know when someone reaches out, by the time they get on the call with me, it's like we're best friends. Like you and I, it was like, oh, I feel like I've known you forever. And that's my experience on all of my calls. And, you know, that's the part that I love about LinkedIn is that you show up as you, and if you be you, and sometimes it means making a stand against other things. So I hate all of those cheap hacks. I hate people gaming the system with engagement pods. Yes. And I am not afraid to say it. And I think we've got to stand up for things that we believe in sometimes. I think that disappeared, and I know it comes with a risk for some people, and that might be too great. And you know, there's no judgment, but if I can encourage people to give it a go, it's definitely something that will make you stand out. And that's what's really important.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

And it was huge when I heard that, and I heard really your values and uh the integrity that you had. I said, I want to work with her. It was a done deal. And so when I reached to you, I was ready. I said, How do we work together? Because I I want to understand LinkedIn more. And I had already, you know, dipped my toe for about a year and a couple months. I'd already been doing things and trying to read up on it. And but some, I don't know, I just couldn't find some uh uh uh expert that I really aligned with until I met you. And I went like, hallelujah, I finally found somebody. So awesome, awesome. So let's let's give everybody a little bit of background as far as you know, just to give them some context, how you ended up in the space of LinkedIn, especially company pages, because you don't hear too much about that. Everybody talks about the profile.

SPEAKER_03 6:02

Absolutely. So imagine this, Marissa. I do a LinkedIn post and I get a new piece of business. I'd been posting for around six years, so this wasn't just a one post, one hit wonder, but I did this one particular post and I was working for someone else at the time, and I ended up winning $2 million worth of business from that post. You can't even imagine the high that I was on. And to put it in context, the business that I work for, their annual revenue was around the same. So we're talking this is high-fiving myself, you know, jumping around, doing a happy dance, and amazing. Fast forward three, four weeks later, the person I worked for decided to renege on that deal, called the company that I'd done the deal with, and basically pushed me under a bus and said, oh no, Michelle should never have done that. And it was during COVID when, you know, you can imagine we were making hand sanitizer, and so it was like gold rush time. And so what happened was I was like, you know, shattered. I felt like I was gonna have a heart attack as I was finding out this news from my customer. And so, you know, coming back to those values and integrity, as I'm processing this information and going through what just happened, I just went, I cannot work for this person. Like that's a deal breaker on levels I've never had to deal with in my, you know, career. And so I quit on the spot. I literally never walked back into that office ever again. I dropped it and never, never returned. And because I know that my name is something that I can have to protect, my reputation in the industry is something that I spent so much work building up. And so I was like, that's it. I'm out of there. I'm never gonna work for anybody else ever again. Great idea. And then my partner, Lil, she said to me, Michelle, why don't you work for yourself and build a business for us and work as hard as what you do for everyone else? Like you'll be a success, you're smart, just go and do something. I'm saying, oh, okay. And I was like, what will I do? You know, and when you can do anything. When you can do anything, it also means you can do everything, and it's really hard to pick. I don't encourage people uh to kind of go through this method, but you know, that would that was life for me. But fast forward, and I went through, you know, kind of dark time because it was COVID lockdowns here in Australia. It was winter, I was home by myself, and I'm a true extrovert that gets energized by other people. And time just kept going on. I said, I can't come up with an idea, can't come up with an idea. And then eventually what happened was I noticed that my former industry had started to use LinkedIn because the trade shows had been turned off, customer visits had been turned off, international visitors couldn't come. So all the traditional selling methods had gone out the window, and LinkedIn became the cool place to be. Now, for me, I'd been doing it for about six or seven years at that stage. So I reached out to one of those connections and I said, Look, if you try this, this, and this, it'll really help you. And this is one of those moments where I thank God, she says to me, Michelle, where did you learn all this stuff? I wish I could learn from you. You know, it is one of those angels going on. And I said, I could write a training program. And the rest, as they say, is history. So now I use my B2B sales expertise and my knowledge of LinkedIn. I bring those together to help people grow their businesses on LinkedIn. And it's just the best job in the world, I think.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

I feel like it's so fresh and the way LinkedIn has changed throughout the years and the way it is now, it really um, it's not, I always say it's not so suit and tie, but I think you are coming in at an incredible timing because of the change, and LinkedIn is getting more visibility, and you're right there out front talking it up. And I love it. I love it. I love the fact that LinkedIn is getting that recognition and that you're leading the way. That makes me excited. I just want to point out I finally found where the comments are. I have to tell you guys, I am doing the podcast live on LinkedIn because of Michelle. It's her fault. And so I've been still kind of navigating, getting my sea legs. I was going, Michelle, where are the comments? I can't find it, but I just found them. So hello to Laura. She is chiming in live and she said, hello, Marissa and Michelle. So people I know that in my circle of influence are interested in LinkedIn. They're trying to still figure out the profile piece and the company piece and everything else. So, as B2B, we're talking B2B, you know, businesses. What would you suggest, or where would somebody even begin when they're thinking about LinkedIn? How are some of the ways that LinkedIn is different? I know it's like so awesome, but how are some of the ways? Just pick some of your favorites that is different, and how would a B2B business begin?

SPEAKER_03 10:56

What's really exciting is LinkedIn's been around for over 20 years now, and it still feels like it's just new because I feel like they're just finding their feet. And especially in business to business. Like so traditionally, I've spent 20, or probably five years now, if I think about it, in B2B sales. And when I first started, it was all about knocking on the door. I had all the power, long lunches, and then over time there was this thing called Google and the internet that just took over. And then all of a sudden, that power shift came to the modern buyers. They could Google and get answers at their fingertips, and all of a sudden, they had the knowledge. So that was, you know, even things up. If not, they had more power because they had access to all of your competitors' information just as much. And so what we're seeing, LinkedIn have actually recognized that there was trillions of dollars of business that's happening that they don't even know about on the platform because business of business, a lot of the times people thought we don't need to do any marketing, we don't need to stand out online, we've always done it this way. We always go to this trade show every year, we advertise in this magazine, like, you know, and then as those things have shifted and everybody's looking for answers online, the question is, is your business online? Now, LinkedIn is the platform where you come to do business. And I still think it's amazing that there is no real competitive threat to LinkedIn in this space. You know, we've got other platforms like TikTok and Instagram and you know, X that they take care of other pieces, but you trust LinkedIn. And I think that's the thing that I love about it is there's a certain level of behavior, professional behavior that protects people when they're on LinkedIn. So you don't have to deal with trolls, you don't have to deal with, you know, lots and lots of rubbish that you have to sift through to get to the good parts to do business. And so I think that's why I love it. It's kind of not the cool kid, but it's your best friend you can rely on through thick and thin. It's always there, it hasn't really changed. Um, and it's a yeah, like I said, it is the platform where you come to do business. And I think that's the important thing. To not be there now is a missed opportunity, and your competitors will just eat up that space. And it's really hard to play catch up. So I don't encourage that.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

I agree. When I switched over, because I never really I knew I we had a LinkedIn account, but I was doing what everybody else did. I was focusing on Facebook and Instagram, and my whole experience there is another story, but I decided, you know, I I'm done. I'm you've got to pivot. When you see things are not working, you should pivot, you know, maybe even before it starts breaking down. But you know, I waited and I saw some things and I said, I need to find really on B2B, why am I not on LinkedIn? And so when I first started, I was uncovering all of these amazing features. I never knew LinkedIn had so many features. Can you talk about that? Because there's a lot there.

SPEAKER_03 13:59

There were over 200 new features released last year alone, like mind-blowing. It's just crazy when you think about that. So even someone like myself who spends 24-7 on the platform, it feels like some days, is really well connected with the best of the best around the globe. And we share information, make sure that we're across everything. I struggle to keep up. So, therefore, when I work with clients, they're often feeling overwhelmed as well. The good part that I love is that LinkedIn is investing so much money into the platform to make those new features come alive. Because, you know, for a while there it felt a bit stale, it felt like they were left behind. Now I think, you know, because Microsoft's got shares in bits of AI technology that it's now trying to rush that through, which is not really their style. And I think there's a few lumps and bumps that come with that. But as with everything, I think it will get better over time. But there's so many cool things. And I think my advice to people before they get started on LinkedIn is don't get lost in the features and functions. You have to start with what are the business goals? If you don't have business goals of what you're trying to achieve, your time on LinkedIn is absolutely wasted. Does not matter how many features you use, you will not get to achieve those business goals. So start with your business goals and then work out a strategy. How do you use LinkedIn to drive your business towards those goals? So it should be supporting you. And it's not one of those things where I see people they're active and they're posting and they're active and then posting. I'm like, where are you trying to get to? To what end? Yeah. You know, so they're busy being busy and then wonder why speak to people all the time. I spoke to a lady recently who'd only had three inquiries in a year and she'd been posting at least five times a week. Okay, I was like, okay, something's wrong here. You know, like you should be getting more people reach out than that. And that wasn't even converting clients, which worried me even more. And, you know, that's the thing that I'm out to stop, Marissa. I don't want, I know what the stress of, you know, not being fine, not having financial freedom is like. I am blessed that I don't live in that space now, but that's why I want to pass on my knowledge to other people because it's stressful when you don't know where your next invoice is coming from or, you know, next payment is coming from. So have those goals and then learn about LinkedIn, stick to the basics and build relationships. And, you know, that's what you and I absolutely share in common is that I don't think people understand the real power of LinkedIn is not any feature I can teach you how to use. It's the relationships you build and nurture. That's where the real power is.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Yeah. And I think you're right because a lot of people feel like not just on LinkedIn, but a lot of places, if I just post and I just spread it out everywhere, it's kind of the build-it and they will come mentality where with the algorithms always changing, yeah, the posts are great. And you recommended to me. I don't see you, Marissa. You need more video, you need your face out there. I go, Are you sure they want to see this grandma on there all the time? But I took your advice. I said, you know, she's right. I always hide behind the posts and the images. And that's why I decided to do the podcast live. And now you might be happy to hear I started a newsletter, but it's all strategic, like you're saying. What is the outcome you want? So that everything ties together and works together. So now I don't have to post every day on LinkedIn. I can post like every other day because I'm already generating content like with the podcast and the newsletter and things like that. So you help me out a lot. So are you proud of me?

SPEAKER_03 17:40

I am just sitting here going, it's my happy dance is going on right now. Because there's two things that happen. When you don't have a goal and a strategy, then what happens is you just be busy and then you're doing stuff that maybe you don't need to do. And often when I'm talking with people and clients, it's like you're doing too much. Like, who doesn't want to hear that? Yeah. And the pressure that people put on themselves to try and keep up. And oh, I've got to be on Instagram, I've got to be on this, I've got to be on that, I've got to be, and they're nearly, you know, driving themselves into the ground on a fast train to burn out. And what ends up happening is they go out the gate at a million miles an hour and very quickly can't keep up. And then all of a sudden they drop everything, which is, you know, it's really gonna have a long-term impact. And I see people that are like, I'm really comfortable over on Instagram. I love Instagram and I'm posting all the time. I've got my community, I love it. And I was like, okay, what are you know your audience is over here on LinkedIn? So I know you're having fun over there, and I know you feel comfortable. And I understand and appreciate and have empathy for the fact that it is sometimes scary for people. More often than not, people have fear of LinkedIn because I'm getting judged by professional colleagues. What's the impact on my potential clients, my boss, my colleagues, my competitors? And heads go, you know, they go to protect us. That's what our brains are designed to do, to protect us and keep us safe. They're not there going, this is how you grow your business. Put yourself out there and cheering you on. So I appreciate that. But the problem is if you're spending time in the wrong places or you're in the right place taking the wrong actions, both have the same impact. And that's, you know, not generating demand for your business to grow. And so, you know, it's easily fixed. You know, as we've worked together, it's really easily fixed. It's just stop, have those goals in place, and then work out the strategy that will get you there. And I love that you've changed things up. I'm so excited because it was just a no-brainer for me looking at, you know, your content that you put out as far as your podcast, you know, not sharing your voice, not sharing your face, seeing your movements. I was like, this is crazy. Like you are not a two-dimensional person.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

I know. She was teasing me earlier before we went live. It's born to be live. We were singing the song born to be live. So that's me, born to be live. So I'm here. So let's talk about some practical things for people because they're probably wondering to have the company page if they want to use, well, let's just start with the simple, let's get go down to the profile. At what point should a solopreneur? I know like larger companies that have employees and things like that, will have company pages and it makes sense. But if they're more of a small business, maybe it's just them, their web person, maybe a bookkeeper or something. Um, what would be kind of the steps? Would they start with the profile? And at what point would they create a company page?

SPEAKER_03 20:37

I know what it's like to be spinning those plates, trying to keep them all in the air. So if you are in this situation, it's about balancing the resources and where will you get best bang for your buck. So, first up, you're gonna make sure that your LinkedIn profile really reflects who you are, what you do, and who you serve. And so once we've got that sorted, we can go in and then start taking some other actions on the platform. Maybe creating content, maybe direct messaging people. Why do I say that first? Because all roads lead back to your LinkedIn profile. If you send a direct message to connect with someone, they're gonna go and check that out and find out who are you, you know, just so they make sure that you align with what they're looking for in some way, shape, or form. Yes. Now that's one piece of the puzzle. I also encourage everybody, I don't care what size business, you need a company page. Now it then becomes around how much time you're gonna spend on both. And I say you need one because it acts as acting, it adds legitimacy to your business. Now, if you're a small business, the cool part is you get all the same features as someone that's got 15,000 employees. The biggest companies in the world only have access to exactly the same features. Now, if you put some quality content and thought into it over there, then people don't stop and judge and go, oh, it's only one person. They look and go, that's quality and that helps me, and that's you know what I'm looking for. Now, as far as timing goes, because of the way company pages work on LinkedIn for small businesses, so those, you know, you know, one to, you know, say even up to 20, you are probably going to be putting more effort into personal content and profiles than what you are the company page. Now, why bother at all is the next question. Well, if someone Googles your business name or pokes around on LinkedIn and they're considering working for you, Google your business name, the company page pops up in the first few results. So if someone clicks on it, they come across do you want the red carpet or do you want a ghost town? Totally your choice how you want to greet them. I know which one I want. Now, the other part is in any business, maybe not if it's just one or two of you, but there's always staff turnover. And so as people come and go, if you put all your eggs in the personal branding basket and you're a business, then what happens is as they go, you lose everything. And so you don't want to be in a situation like that. And I have been the goose that laid the golden egg at one particular company that I started with. I had 5,000 followers, they had zero. And I went and worked for a competitor and I took them all with me. And so it happens every day. It's why a lot of businesses won't get active on the platform because they're scared of that happening. I say, no, no, no, wish them well. Make sure that they look back fondly on their time working with you because they'll still be an ambassador. And so look at those kinds of things. So just really becomes what's your goals? How can you use the profiles? How can you back it up with the company page? And again, it just becomes about time. So company page, I'd say just keep it ticking over. Maybe one post a week, one post every two weeks. And I love what you said before. Get involved with repurposing. It doesn't have to be brand new content. Take the best of the best that you've done on your personal profile and pop it over on the company page.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

No one will ever know. No. And some of the posts that I have on my profile, if I saw that there was a little bit more engagement or if I saw I could have said more, because I didn't want to make them really long of the posts, then I just build it out a little bit and create a newsletter. I've already got two. I got one already finished for the next one I'm going to do, and I've got an idea for the next one. So, you know, I was going to do it once a month, and I'm thinking every other week I think I'm going to do it. But it's great. And one of the things you said about Google, it's amazing how LinkedIn pops up. When people are searching things, the first thing you see is LinkedIn. You don't even often see the website, you see LinkedIn, which I think is an extra little bonus there. The fact that it ranks so well.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

Yeah, it comes back to LinkedIn is a trusted platform. You know, and so the more that you put out there and articles and newsletters also get indexed by Google. So how cool is that? It's another reason why you need a big tick on getting your newsletter started. Now it's not right for everybody, but you know, ultimately that's the other thing. How can people discover you not just by being closely connected to because you worked with someone or they're a competitor or a customer currently? How do you get discovered by new people? Because that's where the real growth comes, not necessarily from the people you've already, you know, had work with. So yeah, it's fun. I think when you can see it as a bigger picture and zoom out, yeah, and then have a look and say, how does this contribute to my overall brands? That's when you can see the magic. When people lose it is when they zoom so close in and get worried about, oh, I got 500 impressions instead of 780. The algorithm's not showing my stuff anymore, and rah-r-rah, and they go down that rabbit hole. Uh that's when you lose sight of what's really important. And branding is so much more powerful than the number of impressions that you get on a post.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Right. And I think maybe you told me this because I I look at the analytics after a period of time, like for the past three months or six months, you know, the long game, because you always see if you even if, well, we're in a new year, even looking last year, you see it gradually going up and you see how it kind of wiggles its way up. There's some ups and downs, but it's got this constant going up. And so that's what I'm looking at. And I'm going, okay, that's great. Rather than looking at weekly or daily, that could be frustrating and discouraging.

SPEAKER_03 26:11

Especially at the moment on the platform. You know, I my numbers of impressions were reasonably consistent over a very long period of time. And then towards, I would say, the last quarter of last year, all of a sudden they're roughly half. And I'm thinking, what is going on here? And it's just the nature of the beast. Like we've got a billion plus members on LinkedIn now. It's a crowded space. There's only one home feed, and we're all fighting for our piece of that, you know, puzzle. How do you stand out? Is put some good quality stuff out there. And sometimes it is literally about trying some different things. And so for me, I've been having a play around just recently with some really bad photoshopping and just some fun things and trying different formats for my videos and just things that I wouldn't normally do. And it's funny how much they're resonating with my audience. And it's I'm sure you're going through something similar, but trying different things from time to time is something I always encourage. It's easy to get stuck in the rut and do what's easy, guilty as charged. Um, and for those of you thinking, oh, I'm not funny, I can't be creative, I can't do that. Just try something different. Like I said to one friend on LinkedIn, I said, I posted a black and white photo of me. Now, for your listeners, they've probably who may not have seen my content, my content is always bright. It's, you know, my branding is all really bright colors, you know, pinks and blues and stands out. There's nothing subtle. I want it, I want you to feel happy when you see it. Yeah. And it stands out. So when I post a photo of myself without my trademark big smile, and it's in black and white, my community goes, Hang on a minute, what's happened to Michelle? Who stole Michelle? And they all come flocking. Now, you know, the post is the post, but it's about just trying something different. And for you, it could be something that little as well. How do you interrupt the pattern of people see the same stuff and they're scrolling at a million miles an hour? How do you interrupt what they see so you stand out? So, yeah, my my uh photoshopping that I did yesterday, which I am a terrible photoshopper. Um, you know, I am speaking in a conference in Denmark this year as well. And so it happened to coincide with there's a new queen of Denmark, uh, and she's from Australia. She's the first one. So I put the two of us in the photo. Now it's hilarious because I've got my royal wave going. Um, and again, it's not quality, but it's funny. And I think we've got to bring in some of those other pieces of us. So yeah, um, having some fun, trying some different things and values.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

Um, yeah, and that's your personality shining too.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

Yeah, absolutely. And that's what people are drawn to. You know, they're not drawn to just us being the same as everybody else, you know. And you will find your people if you're worried about standing out and you're thinking, you know, I've got one of my clients, he is very much into Buddhism and he's a financial advisor. And I was like, how do you, you know, but that's who he is. Like I was thinking, how do you put those two together? Then I realized what he was doing on LinkedIn didn't express the other side of him. So it was missing. And, you know, by just taking that stand and putting little pieces in it, because I'm like, when they get on a call with you, you're gonna be that person. You know, you are you can't pretend you're something that you're not, it's exhausting. Um, it's just being fun in the little ways people can show up authentically.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

We do have a question from somebody that's watching live. Uh Laura asked, as a solopreneur, do I still start and use a company page just like other small businesses? This is something that I think you just covered. The answer is yes, because you encourage me to do it. Otherwise, I wouldn't have done it. And I I asked you, I can? Can I do that? And use it, of course you can.

unknown 29:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:56

And the thing that I've used is every time I do my, just as a little tip, every time I do my personal post, I get my company page to come across and like it and write one comment every time. So what happens is people see Michelle J. Raymond and B2B Growth Co. We show up in the same places every time. Every time my company page uh, you know, does a post, then guess who shows up? Michelle J. Raymond's always there to comment. Now, for some of you thinking, Michelle, people know it's just you. Well, some people do, others have no idea how big or small my company is. There is no way that you can tell quickly by looking at my content. No one cares, they just want answers to their problems. And so, yeah, that's an easy way that you can leverage both.

SPEAKER_02 30:41

I love that.

SPEAKER_03 30:42

And that synergy, it's that whole one plus one equals three, you know, like it's yeah. So I love branding's.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

I have um just a quick rapid fire questions because I want to be respectful of your time. Oh, good. But um let's go into um maybe I'll skip that one. Maybe I'll pick another one. Um some of the people I I've seen a couple of ways that people are using LinkedIn, and I'm not sure how I feel about it. Sometimes people will um go to a profile or somewhere where there's an email, and they'll go ahead and email that person uh wanting them to either opt in into something or they opt them in and they ask them to opt out. What do you think of that practice when people go to a profile and snag those emails without really having consent to send something to them?

SPEAKER_03 31:32

I mean, do you really want to start a relationship based on, hey, I went and scraped your email address, or even worse, I used a tool and someone or I bought a list. Is that how you want to start the conversation with somebody? Um, it's a big no from me on that one. I just think, you know, the easier you think that this is that you can just, you know, wham bam, thank you, ma'am. It's that's how you're gonna build a relationship on the platform. It's just never gonna happen. Or it's gonna, you know, it's just for me, it's just yuck.

SPEAKER_02 32:05

I think that is it's the opposite of building relationships. And we're playing the long game, right? We're not this we're playing the long game to be able to build. And the thing is, every connection has value. And I say that a lot. I mean, you it's a way to maybe we serve someone for a change with nothing coming back to us, or maybe it's an opportunity to have a podcast guest, or maybe it's someone that does want to work with you. There's different outcomes when we start talking to people, but we never know until we make those connections. Every person has value. So, or you can even give a referral, or you get a referral. I mean, you never know the outcome. So, thank you for sharing that. I just wanted to get that off my chest because there's lots of automation tools out there now.

SPEAKER_03 32:48

And just, you know, to put it out there, they look really attractive on the surface. You put your whole LinkedIn account at risk. It is against the user terms and agreements. You also give access to these tools by enabling a cookie when you log on through Google to use the tools, they can then post and comment on your behalf without you even knowing. Scary. A friend of mine, Daniel Hall, is you know, shedding a light on this, the engagement pods, and you would be very surprised at those top influencers that you see on LinkedIn that seem to have numbers every single time they post. It works like magic. And, you know, you'd kind of look at going, I've been doing this for nearly 10 years. It doesn't work like that. You know, like what's going on? And that they are literally paying for people to do that. But some of them are now discovering that these yeah, tools comment on their behalf without them knowing. That imagine that damage that it does to your reputation because the comments are not thoughtful, the comments are just generic AI-generated rubbish. Um, and so yeah, I could I just can't understand how people think, oh wow, I can send 800 messages without doing anything. And then you destroy your brand with 799 of them. It's too big enough.

SPEAKER_02 34:04

That's right. That's right. Okay, the other thing is a big question people have is how do I minimize the spamming? Even like when I got my company page up and running, I noticed I was getting all these spam messages, and I had not toggled a little setting. I went back and toggled it. But um, how do you minimize spam messages?

SPEAKER_03 34:27

I wish that there was like a magic button we could just block them. Unfortunately, there isn't. Settings is definitely a good place to start. There is one which you can go in and switch off where people can send you in mails. So that's one option that you can do. Uh, sometimes it can be about toggling things like your headline or maybe your work experience, how you describe yourself. Unfortunately, those lazy people who use tools, then go in and just search for all the CEOs or all the founders or all this, and that's their only criteria. So if you have a job title that's CEO, then what happens is, yeah, like I said, lazy people using automation tools just type that in and send it to everyone. It's like spray and pray. Oh, it's not something I encourage. Do is there a way? I would say if you receive that kind of stuff, always report and you know, block people if they're you know really bad and just won't take a hint. So don't be afraid to report and block. That is probably the best way they can do it.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

So yeah, the connections, when I get a connection request, um it's probably at this point I can do it, but at some point it's gonna be laborous. But I actually go to the profile and I I look to see if they have a website because oftentimes they don't fill it out. Back to your point, you know, fill out the profile, make sure everything's in there. Because if they don't have a website, I go, why didn't they put a website on there? If they just have LinkedIn on there, it makes me suspicious. And so I don't connect with them.

unknown 35:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:57

So fake profiles uh pretty crazy out there. So if you spot someone that reaches out to do that and they've maybe got 10 connections and a half-filled profile, then report it as well. We've, you know, LinkedIn do a lot of work to try and stop that from happening on the platform. But the fact is, you know, all of these engagement pods and tools, they rely on having these fake accounts out there, which is again, if I can stamp that out, um, it would be my Christmas present coming in, you know, if we got to the end of 2024 and we could stamp all of that out, it would be great. Uh, I don't think it's gonna happen in my lifetime, but you know, we can live in hope. But this is the thing, if you are finding that you, you know, even in your home feed, if the stuff that you're seeing irritates you, the stuff that you're seeing doesn't make you feel good in any way. For me, um, I love to be the best. And so coming second at things is part of my personality I'm working on because I don't particularly like it. But I used to find that was particular creators and things that if I saw their content, it would trigger that in me, and then I'd be in a bad mood for the next couple of hours. Now I can't afford to be in that, and sure I should be, you know, more mature, but I'm human, you know. So what I do is if something I don't like seeing it in my feed, there's three buttons in the top right hand, sorry, three little dots in the top right hand corner of every post. And all you do is click on that and click unfollow. So you're still connected to the person, you can still message them and build relationships out of the home feed. Uh, but if it's content you're not liking consistently, then I suggest you remove connection because you're never going to work with them because your values don't align, you know, and they're not gonna reach out to you. So protect your time and protect your mind on LinkedIn. It's totally important.

SPEAKER_02 37:41

Because you suggested that to me, and and that helps a lot to have a cleaner feed. So that's good. Okay, this is my last question. And the question about obviously when you have a newsletter, you can put links in there, which is so awesome about newsletters. But on a post, do you put the link inside of the actual description or in the comments? Because there's pros and cons to both. So, what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_03 38:10

To explain that to people, there's you know, research from you know other uh people out there that would suggest that if you put an external link in a post, then LinkedIn reduces how many people that that see that post because they don't want you to send people off LinkedIn. They want to keep people on the platform. Why do they want that? So that they can show you more ads. That's how they make money. So logistically, that makes sense and you can understand that. So if we want to keep the algorithm happy, then we wouldn't put a link in the actual post. Now I'm a relationship builder, I'm all about what makes being, I guess, being in service of my audience and what makes it easier for them. So my recommendation is if it makes sense to put it in the post and make it easier for people, then put it in the post. And you know, the reach will be what the reach will be. We're talking a difference of, I don't know, maybe 15%. Now, for some people, it's not going to make any difference, uh, you know, at the be at the end of the day. If I have a post, like for instance, I had a post that I didn't put the link in the post, much which went against everything that I not have just said, but I have some other reasons. I thought, oh, comment as my company page and put the link in the comments, you know, is how I thought I'd do it. And then what happened was I ended up with 80 comments on my post. And do you think someone's gonna go and search through 80 different comments to try and find a link? Uh no, that's not what's gonna happen. So this is the thing to keep in. It's getting buried, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:35

It gets buried and they can't find it.

SPEAKER_03 39:37

Yeah, exactly, which is the least thing you that you want to happen is someone to be that interested, they want to click on the link, they can't find it, they give up. Yeah, that's not what we're trying to do. So I am always driven by being in service of my community, giving them value every time because I'm trading their time when they're reading my content. You know, I'm I understand that time's precious to people, and just making sure that we make life easy for them. And that's why they stick around and keep coming back for more.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

Right. And I notice in the comments too, if you post, um, at least in the profile, um, in the comments, a lot of time it's not visible to people if you post the link.

SPEAKER_03 40:17

Yeah, so if you have a look, there's a little setting down in the comments on LinkedIn that says most recent or most relevant. So LinkedIn decides what's most relevant. You have no control over that. Now, if someone doesn't know what's most recent or know what that little function is or know that they can change it, then they default, I'm pretty sure, is most relevant. And therefore, if the link is somewhere that LinkedIn decides it's not relevant, then they won't see it. Um, and so this is where other problems come in. So I would say, in general, make life easier, keep the content all together, don't make people work too hard. No one's got time to go searching, no one even has the inclination. So yeah, make life easy.

SPEAKER_02 41:00

Yeah. This has been awesome. And it's been good to catch up with you. I just love you to pieces. You're awesome. So, how would people um get a hold of you? Obviously, they can see you at social media marketing world, but if someone is not going, oh sad, right? Um, how can they get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_03 41:19

Well, you're gonna find me on LinkedIn. And if you go up to the search bar and type Michelle J Raymond, so the initial J, and the reason it's in there, not to make me sound smarter because someone asked me that one day. Is that why you've got it in there? It's like, uh no, uh, I've got it in there because there are so many different Michelle Raymonds on the platform. So if you have a common name, little tip, sometimes you might want to add your initials so you stand out and are more easily discovered. So, Michelle J. Raymond, find me on LinkedIn. I would and let us know that you've listened to this podcast and that's how you discovered me. So I can say thank you to Marissa for having me as her guest.

SPEAKER_02 41:53

Awesome. Thank you so much. And I'm wishing you well. I know you're just gonna crush it as social media marketing world. They're gonna love you. It's just gonna be amazing. So, congratulations on that. And you know where you can reach Michelle. And thank you everyone for listening today. Any last words or comments, Michelle, for the audience?

SPEAKER_03 42:17

I think my best advice that I can give people is when you take actions on LinkedIn, create your digital twin. And what I mean by that is don't be a LinkedIn version of you and then another version of you offline if I was to meet you at an event. The more that you just be yourself and put things in your own words, in your own way, your own style, your own experience, your own emotions, your own values. Like there's so many different pieces to you. The more that you do that, the more fun your time will be on LinkedIn because you're going to attract the right people, repel the wrong ones. And it's really draining trying to be someone that you're not. So just yeah, create your digital twin and you'll have far more fun on the platform. And why do I encourage having fun? Because that's how you can sustain this over the long term, just like I have for 10 years now. If you try and be something that you're not and put on a front, you'll be out in about three weeks, maximum three months. And if you're trying to grow a business, that's not gonna work. So uh yeah, it's it's been really great to catch up with you today. I'm so excited that we actually got to talk again. So I know I hope that that's helped your audience. But LinkedIn is the place to be, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 43:27

I agree. Thank you so much, Michelle. Thank you for everything that you've deposited in my life as well. And and twisting my arm to do these lives. No, you didn't twist my arm, but great recommendation. I'm enjoying it. I'm still feeling like a fish out of water, but it's all working. Thank you so much. I appreciate you being on the show. Take care, everyone. Cheers. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_01 43:49

Hey there, Marissa here. If you enjoyed this podcast, would you take a moment and give this podcast a five star rating with a review? That would mean so much to me. And for those of you who've already done that, thank you so much. Until next time, take care.